The EU has just had its first summit with the six-member Gulf Cooperation Council with the aim of developing a closer partnership with the powers in the region. It’s a relationship built on opportunities but also multiple challenges, not least human rights issues.
As the war in the Middle East enters a new dangerous phase, the EU held its first ever EU-Gulf Cooperation Council. For Europe Conversation, Shona Murray sat down with Secretary General of the Gulf Cooperation Council, Jasem Al Budaiwi, to talk about about the agenda; trade, global security and renewed efforts for a two-state solution in the Middle East.
Shona Murray: Your Excellency, thank you very much for joining us on the Europe conversation. You’re here for the first ever EU Gulf Cooperation Summit. Lots of things on the agenda security, global warming and so on. But I want to start off in the Middle East, because we are at a very dangerous moment. We’re seeing constant attacks by Hezbollah and Iran against Israel. We’re seeing immeasurable suffering in Gaza and also in Lebanon. Can you tell me what you see as the EU’s role in this has been and can be?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Definitely, the EU has been a responsible partner and we thank them for their role in trying to convince the Israeli side to refrain from its actions against the people and the Palestinian people and again, or newly against Lebanon. The EU has helped out the Palestinian people. There are many members which we really admire and appreciate who have recognised the Palestinian state. We hope that the EU members, all of them, the 27, do work toward recognising Palestine. This would really help.
Shona Murray: And has the EU had any success in speaking to Israel? A lot of people would also point to the fact that the EU is heavily divided on this issue.
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Has anybody in the international community any success in convincing the Israeli government to refrain from this action? Unfortunately, no. The Israeli government continues its policy, continues its military action against civilians in Palestine and Lebanon. They continue this attack. The International Court of Justice called them to stop, the UN and called them, told the Security Council, called them to stop. Every single country in the world has asked Israel to stop. They have not done it. We cannot put that pressure on any group of people or a group of countries or a country.
Shona Murray: And then do you appreciate that some member states are selling arms to Israel?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Member states of?
Shona Murray: The EU.
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Well, we hope that not only the EU again, we don’t want to single out a group of countries. It is a comprehensive thing. Selling arms to Israel at this moment is a dangerous thing. They are dealing with this issue with a revenge-oriented mind. We hear that from Mr. Joseph Borrell. He used this terminology: ‘revenge does not take you to anywhere.’ You need to stop. You need to find a peaceful solution, two state solution, a Israeli state and a Palestinian state living side by side. This is what the whole world is asking for. This is what we are asking for.
Shona Murray: Can you tell me where you see Iran’s role in all of this? Supporting Hezbollah, sending rockets into Israel, supporting Hamas?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Well, the GCC has called every single player in the region for de-escalation. We have asked everybody to refrain from any activities that will fuel conflict, that will and rage the entire region, whether it’s Iran or anybody else. We have been trying to speak with them, sending the message of de-escalation. Last week we held our first ever ministerial meeting, GCC with Iran. The message was clear to Iran that the GCC wants a stable region, we hear the same thing from Iran, that they are calling for de-escalation. They are calling for a normal relationship between GCC on Iran and everybody else in the region. This is what we are calling for. This is what is the effort of the GCC.
Shona Murray: We see the instability, obviously, will lead to the rise in oil prices. And what will the GCC’s reaction be to that? Because we’ve seen that in the past during the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine, gas and oil prices going right up and the Opec+ refusing to do extra oil production.
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Shona, this is not the first crisis in the Middle East and this is not the first time that the international community faces the question or the challenge of shortened demand in oil. History is there. You can check the history. You can check the numbers. We’ve seen it so many times where the GCC have done their role regionally and internationally to make sure that oil is provided to everybody. That oil is a reasonable price for the seller and the buyer. And oil is an important element for the international economic formula. We need to make sure that there is enough supply for everybody. Rest assured that the GCC will be there when this challenge is facing the international community.
Shona Murray: So they will increase oil production?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: They will do every necessary thing to secure energy for every partner in the world.
Shona Murray: And one of the requests from EU member states throughout the Gulf summit was for greater recognition and appreciation from Gulf countries regarding the role of Russia as a global security threat, but also in particular, obviously a threat to the security of Europe, because we haven’t really seen that so far. Do you see Russia as a security threat to the world and you recognise its threat to Europe given of its full scale invasion of Ukraine?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Shona, the Gulf Cooperation Council member States believe in dialogue. Believe in diplomacy. Believe in continue engagement. And that’s why we have a perfect relationship with every single partner in the world, whether it’s Russia, China, the United States, the EU, Latin America, Africa, Asia. We are standing in the middle. Having the same distance with everybody. And we are engaged in a dialogue with everybody. And this is the message we send to everybody – is we should refrain from using force and use dialogue diplomacy as our tool in discussion. Nobody should use any kind of force. I am personally from Kuwait and I know what is the use of force. My country was gone in a few hours when Saddam invaded Kuwait in the 90s.
Shona Murray: But do you recognise Russia as this as a security threat, given that they are bombing children’s cancer hospitals in Kyiv and dialogue hasn’t worked because it didn’t work to prevent Putin from invading Ukraine?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: Well, there is a Security Council, there is a United Nations where we all can go. It is our court. This is where you need to address these kind of questions. You go to your General Assembly in the United Nations, you go to the Security Council and address it, Shona. And nobody, again, should be singled out on certain issue or certain file. It has to be a comprehensive, international, comprehensive effort that deals with these kind of questions.
Shona Murray: What would you like to see in relation to trade? And if there were clauses in trade agreements in relation to human rights and gender equality, would that be a problem?
Jasem Al Budaiwi: It will not be a problem because we are very proud about very proud of our human rights record. We, the six of us, are engaged with the EU with a human rights dialogue. And this dialogue is done on a yearly basis where officials from both sides sit in a very thorough and comprehensive discussion discussing all sorts of issues related to human rights and labour, women empowerment, child rights, all sorts of issues. You can also check with your European colleagues on the wonderful outcome that comes out of these dialogues. The six of us are engaged. It’s held once in Brussels and once in each country in the in the Gulf. Also, there is another path where human rights is discussed, which is Geneva, where each country is reviewed every five years, and not only EU GCC, but the whole international community reviews each country and reviews its file every five years. We are very proud. We are very honoured about what we have achieved in meeting the international community demands and requirements on human rights. Our record is wonderful and we are extremely proud of it.
Shona Murray: I mean, a lot of people would argue with that and they say that the record is far from wonderful and doesn’t meet the international standards when it comes to basic human rights, whether you’re talking about Saudi Arabia, people being arrested for tweeting and the executions that take place frequently in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar, there was heavy focus on migrant workers and the rights been taken away, tortured and so on. You know, I think. People would argue that really those standards fall far below international requirements.
Jasem Al Budaiwi: I don’t know. When you say people, what do you mean by people?
Shona Murray: Human rights experts. And then if you just look at the reports, the reporting from those countries..
Jasem Al Badaiwi: I would also challenge these kind of reports because I don’t know who’s doing them or.
Shona Murray: Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International. Journalists themselves.
Jasem Al Budaiwi: I’m talking about the human rights dialogue that I’m having with the EU and the review that I have every five years in Geneva. I don’t know who gave these organisations the right or the privilege to set the bar for the whole international community with human rights. It’s a dialogue. Again, we talk about dialogue. You don’t point your finger at anybody. You need to respect everybody’s laws, everybody’s culture, everybody’s religion. And we are being reviewed again every five years in Geneva. When somebody comes and says, okay, this is my standard for human rights, you have to meet them, otherwise I will write a report about you criticising you. You can write whatever report that you write. I am a member of the international community. I will respect the international community’s demand. I will continue my engagement with the demand and pointing out the Gulf is, has become very ridiculous. Really. I mean, we keep justifying ourselves for those. I don’t really know how far they want to go.
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